Infiltrating the National Socialist Movement.
Throughout my years as an activist and as a journalist I have heard stories of people joining the Neo-Nazi movement or attempting to infiltrate to garner information. Fairly recently I came to realize that someone I consider a good friend had done just that: Infiltrated the National Socialist movement, by himself.
PJ went from an Internet troll, to a Nazi infiltrator, to finally where he is now an anti-racist advocate and activist fighting the same people he had befriended.
Recently his past with the National Socialist movement has been called into question. People who do not know the backstory have been quick to judge without having a full understanding of what actually went down. I wanted to sit down and chat with PJ so he can tell his story himself. PJ has decided that he will be taking a break from activism due to the attack of his intentions and character, but before he leaves to focus on family and career, he wishes to set the record straight.
Here is the interview. What made you decide to infiltrate the NSM?
A: It started as a troll honestly. I thought they were hilarious to mess with. Then it became pretty serious once I dug more into them and realized they were here in my own town. Was it difficult to go along with them being part Native American?
A: Oh definitely at first. But there whole thing was, if you look white enough and "act" white then you are one of them. They were more eager to have another member in their ranks than anything. Some of the rhetoric was difficult to sit through though. How were you able to rise up through the ranks?
A: By attending events that I could, and working on their media for them. I brought a new an untapped arena for them with video production. They were still using windows movie maker on XP while I was making glossy stuff in adobe after effects. But over all I would go to rallies, to meetings, to bbqs, everything and I guess seemed like a solid dude. How many nazis did you convince to leave?
A: I really only convinced two people to leave the group by talking about it.
How many did you force out?
A: I forced out 44 members by threatening to release their information to their employers unless they made a public statement to the group that they were leaving it. Then once they did, I forwarded the information over anyways. Has your life been at risk since?
A: At first, yes. I was receiving death threats daily and I even purchased a pistol because of the volatile nature of everyone involved. As time went by, it slowed down. Still to this day if they see my face, such as when I protested them in 2016 in Rome, Georgia, they will point and call me out by name. How was Daryle (Daryle Lamont Jenkins, a prominent anti-fascist) able to help go from infiltrator to antifa?
A: Honestly he didn't really help that change. He took my information and gave me an outlet to expose them and shared it within the community. Going the route of Antifa was something that slowly built itself as I offered insight and information to various antifascist groups and started to build connections. What did the FBI want to know?
A: They picked me up at work and made me sit in jail over the weekend. When I did speak to an investigator from the FBI I was shackled to the floor and he wanted to ask me questions about NSM Georgia. This was just before I pulled the plug and exposed everyone. The FBI believed me to be sincere with what I was doing in that group and wanted to pry and see what my plans were for the future of NSM Georgia. This is also the time the ADL started to record my name and what I was doing. It started becoming very real on the outside, while not many people knew what was really going on inside. Who were the most prominent people?
A: I've met Jeff Schoep on several occasions. I've sat and talked with him about the future of the NSM over beers and Jagermeister at a hotel in Chattanooga. The funny thing is, is that he himself told me he doesn't believe in the "Cause" they claim and that it's all about making money for himself. I was also suggested to the SS division by Mike Schlaer, and I've met Craig Cobb, Matt Heimbach, Matt Parrot, and Jared Hensley of the IKA. I've met just about every state leader, and the women's division leader Stacy Hoffman who last I heard was also running their internet radio show on the talkshoe website.
Do you think you had a positive or negative impact on the NSM?
A: Honestly I'd say it was 50-50. Although my intentions were always to have a negative impact on their operations. On one hand I pushed out 46 members from the south, on the other I gave them these crazy ideas that they are now putting into motion. It was about building their trust and speaking their language, and I think that's where it kind of backfired for me however I still managed to put them on edge with trust. That's another thing I wanted to do to them. I wanted them to have trust issues with new people, and new people have trust issues with them. What do you hope people will get from your knowledge of the NSM?
A: Really I want to try and put my experience into a book or video series of some sort so that the ideas and actions can be expanded upon to disrupt far right organizing. I think that, it is very dangerous, but some people can take real active roles in dismantling these groups rather than talk about how much they dislike them on social media. I took a huge risk doing what I did, and now it seems like both sides of the fence are out to get me. The neo nazis see me as a race traitor, they want to see me dead in the street. There are antifascists who see me as a neo nazi, they want to see me dead in the street. So I do find myself asking if it was worth it and sometimes I don't think that it was. However we need to start taking real world actions to combat these groups because the state and the police are not and will never do it.
Because of the actions of PJ and others like him neo-nazis have been outed. We are more aware of their inner workings and recruitment techniques due to people putting their lives on the line.
(Article by Jaimes Campbell)